Discussion

Focke-Wulf Fw 190D camouflage & markings, Part II

Cover previewThe content of Part II follows the outline of Part I, with rules and detailed descriptions of colour patterns applied to Fw 190D-9s and D-13s built by the type’s licence manufacturers, i.e., the Arbeitsgemeinschaft Weserflug (Arb. Roland), Mimetall Erfurt and Fieseler Kassel. Separate chapters are dedicated to the influence of repair work on the final appearance of aircraft, and the comparison of different Doras in single units at a specific time.
There is also a “bonus” chapter of a slightly different form, dealing with the detailed analysis of the development of the Fw 190D with Daimler-Benz DB 603 engines, including the Fw 190D-14 and D-15.
The book is fully documented with extracts from original documents, black & white, and colour photographs, as well as numerous colour schemes and colour profiles. It is completed with a comprehensive loss list of the entire Arbeitsgemeinschaft Weserflug, Mimetall Erfurt and Fieseler Kassel production.
Highly recommended for all students of WW II aerial warfare, Fw 190 fans, and modellers.

Discussion forumFocke-Wulf Fw 190D camouflage & markings, Part II

FEEDBACK: Mistakes and incorrectnesses of this book.
from:  
If you find any mistake or incorrectness in this publication, please post it here. It can helps us to improve quality of possible reprints. Thanks.
3. 1. 2008, 4:29
reply
Re: FEEDBACK: Mistakes and incorrectnesses of this book.
from: Michael Swan, Australia   to: JaPo

Just received Vol 2 from a local distributor. Like Vol 1, a superb production.
Please note the erroneous heading on Page 424 that should in fact read 8/JG6.
Can't wait to see Volume 3.
Best wishes for 2008.
5. 1. 2008, 10:42
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Re:Re: FEEDBACK: Mistakes and incorrectnesses of this book.
from: Tomáš Poruba   to: Michael Swan, Australia
Dear Michael,

you are absolutely right. The title could be "8./JG 6".
Thank you very much for the note.

Warmest regards

Tomáš Poruba
17. 1. 2008, 21:08
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Re:Re: FEEDBACK: Mistakes and incorrectnesses of this book.
from: Michael Louey   to: Michael Swan, Australia
Hi Michael,

I am in Australia and was wondering which local distributor you managed to get vol 2 from and what their contact details are?

Regards

Michael
9. 1. 2008, 14:44
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Re: FEEDBACK: Mistakes and incorrectnesses of this book.
from: Jean-Claude Mermet   to: JaPo
Hello all,

Very good book, but...
We find in it always the same error which consists to consider that orthochromatic films are yellow non-sensitive. This blunder has been written elsewhere (I don't remember where...) a long time ago and is still to be seen in modern books.
As I told several times on other sites, orthochromatic films
are yellow sensitive and red non-sensitive. But all is not very simple, because at the end of the war we could find red-ortho films that had better rendering in the red colours and which had almost the same renderings as the well known panchro films... Non-chromatised films are not sensitive to yellow and almost only to blue and a little to violet sensitive.
As a photographer, I can ascertain that orthochromatic films are used to eliminate the yellow backing of old documents when photographically copying this sort of "old papers".
This mistake prevented you to identify the very rare (unique ?) Fw 190D-9 of JG 6 ("black <II + ) sporting a red/white/red band...
It's likely that it should have other JG 6's Fw 190D-9 with the RVD band.
All the best,
Jean-Claude
11. 1. 2008, 0:28
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Re:Re: FEEDBACK: Mistakes and incorrectnesses of this book.
from: Michael Swan, Australia   to: Jean-Claude Mermet
Jean-Claude,
Your technical knowledge has allowed you to raise interesting points.
One photo that confounds me is at the bottom of Page 32, Doras of the Galland Circus, Eagle Files 1, whereby the red circle below the cockpit is a totally different hue to the red undersides of the aircraft, which look black. Elsewhere in the book, the red insignia tallies with the underside shade.
I too was hoping that the Dora you mentioned was in fact a JG6 machine.

Regards,

Mike
11. 1. 2008, 23:35
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Re:Re:Re: FEEDBACK: Mistakes and incorrectnesses of this book.
from: John Manrho   to: Michael Swan, Australia
Jean-Claude,

there is no way that <II is a JG 6 Dora. There is no evidence that Dora's from JG 6 ever used the red-white-red bands. JG 6 only used those bands during their RVT period. When JG 6 moved to Lfl. 6 command in mid January 1945 they removed the bands. The Dora's were not introduced within II./JG 6 until the end of January at Sorau. Film footage of Dora's at Sorau show no RVT-bands.

Cheers,

John.
12. 1. 2008, 12:07
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Re:Re:Re: FEEDBACK: Mistakes and incorrectnesses of this book.
from: Jean-Claude Mermet   to: Michael Swan, Australia
Mike,

I know the fact you speak of. The photos in "Doras of the Galland Circus, EF 1" on pages 32 and 33 (bottom) are very intriguing. Without doubt, the photos have been taken on an ortho film rendering the red undersurfaces a black color. The circle below the cockpit could have been actually yellow. The difficulty is : why this circle has same hue as the numerals on other photographs ? One answer could be : the numerals are a dark blue, the circle is yellow and the photo has benn taken on an panchro film with a medium yellow filter...
Maybe !

All the best,

Jean-Claude
13. 1. 2008, 13:20
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Re: … Re: FEEDBACK: Mistakes and incorrectnesses of this book.
from: Jean-Claude Mermet   to: Jean-Claude Mermet
Precision... and excuse me for wrong typing.

Numerals might have been a dark green, not blue.
Photos where the density of the numerals is the same as that of the circle were taken on ortho film without any filter.
We must keep in mind that the values I give are for well saturated colors. A saturated yellow is a dark color... A lighter yellow gives a lighter hue of grey.

Cheeres,

Jean-Claude
14. 1. 2008, 1:02
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Re: FEEDBACK: Mistakes and incorrectnesses of this book.
from: Fw 190D #13 of JV 44   to: JaPo
Hello,

Two things :
1)
After re-studying the sensitive curves of the different types of films in use at the end of the war and in connexion with the photographs of pages 32 and 33 in "Doras of the Galland Circus", EF 1, there is another possibility : the numerals and the circle are green and the photographs were taken on a panchro film with a medium green filter with the effect of darkening the red colour of the undersurfaces and lighting the yellow tip of the spinner which, in this case, tallies the hue of the RLM 76 color of the sides of the engine cowling...
Other photos were made on ortho films with a dark rendering of the green color of both numerals and circle...
The photograph on page 8 was taken with a panchro film, so that the green color of the circle and the red undersurfaces have the same density of grey.

2)
If no D-9s at all ever wore the JG 6's RVD band, the D-9 with <II + markings, on pages 334 to 337 in volume 2, is of JG 4 with black/white/black bands. Even if on the photo of page 337 we could think at a well weathered black color, I don't think so, because, on page 338, the dark color of the RVD band, even against the sun, is lighter than the black svastika... In "Doras of the Galland Circus", EF 1, on pages 16 and 17 can be seen "red 1". The black rendering of the red undersurfaces indicates the use of an ortho film. Look at the renderings of the yellow band of the Si 204 in the background and of the yellow tip of the Fw's spinner on page 17 : medium grey. If "<II" had had a yellox/white/yellow band, the rendering should have been the same : medium grey, and it's not the case. On a panchro film the rendering of the yellow color should have been much lighter (as with a panchro film with green filter), as on "<II" of Fw Werner Hohenberg's plane (Volume 1, page 115). In spite of some contrary elements, I continue to think that "<II" in volume 2 is JG 6's plane with, too, the caracteristic spinner spiral of this unit...
Cheers,
Jean-Claude
19. 12. 2008, 22:54
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Re: FEEDBACK: Mistakes and incorrectnesses of this book.
from: chas   to: JaPo
Dear JaPo Authors, I compliment you on your splendid books and thorough research. I know you try to make the best guess of the various plane's camo colors that you can givne the information available. Recently the book by Jerry Crandall on the D9 with many new color photobraphs has shown that many of your camouflage guesses must be revised. For example RLM 74 and 75 together were use right to the end of the war. You see this on the wings of D9's from Kassel and Mimetall in Ehrfurt How have these recent revelations changed your view about D9 camouflage and how you interpret black and white photos?

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