Diskuzní fórum

Messerschmitt Me 262s of KG & KG(J) units

Třetí titul naší řady „Luftwaffe over Czech territory 1945“ se zabývá pokusem Luftwaffe výrazně navýšit počet pilotů tryskových strojů výcvikem bombardovacích pilotů na stíhací. Pod vedením Dietricha Peltze byl vytvořen IX.Fliegerkorps(J) a několik jednotek KG transformováno do KG(J). Z nich se však stala operační pouze KG(J) 54, která se v dubnu 1945 přesunula do Prahy a zúčastnila se spolu s JG 7 a částí KG(J) 6 posledních bojových akcí nad Čechami, Německem a Prahou.
Jiným případem je KG 51, která byla regulérní bombardovací jednotkou, která s Me 262 operačně létala již na konci roku 1944. Na konci dubna 1945 přeletělo několik jejích strojů do Prahy a zúčastnila se zde spolu s ostatními útvary posledních bojů.
Zvláštní kapitola je věnována výrobě Me 262B.
Kniha obsahuje studie kamufláží jedenácti strojů od KG(J) 6, KG(J) 54 a KG 51, které se zúčastnily akcí nad Čechami, včetně dvou Me 262B. Text je doprovázen téměř 300 fotografiemi, desítkami originálních dokumentů a přehledovými tabulkami.

Diskuzní fórum → Messerschmitt Me 262s of KG and KG(J) units

8. 10. 2011, 22:04
odpovědět

Fassberg five
od: RR

I think the surrender of the Fassberg five on 8 may 1945 must have given rise to some official reports by the present british units.
Did you acquaint with these reports for your study of black X ? Did these reports describe the paintwork on the planes (just as for example the swiss report on Mutke 's white 3 that is reproduced in the 4th volume of Smith/Creek), especially if one can find in these reports mentions of "bright green" and "brown" or mentions of different tones of green ? can you tell if yellow 5 and 7 wera described as painted in the classic 76-81-82 and yellow 17 painted in a very similar way with black X's ?
thanks for your answer

18. 10. 2011, 21:43
odpovědět

Re: Fassberg five
od: David Brown pro: RR

RR (is that you Robert?),

As far as I am aware, there were no specific RAF reports on the Fassberg Five aircraft. As such, there would have not been any information incorporated into Black X's camouflage interpretation. Perhaps Tomas could also say a few words about this.

Regarding other British CEE reports, some indeed mention camouflage colours, but as the war went into its final months there were far fewer detailed reports, and those for May 1945 merely list the aircraft type, werknummer, codes, location, engine and a word or two on the condition: burnt-out, wrecked, looted, fair condition, etc.

The interpretations for Yellow 5, Yellow 7 and Yellow 17 in the Classic series are, in my opinion, dubious at best. Certainly Yellow 17 had a camouflage scheme and colours identical to Black X given their proximity to each other: WNr.500210 and 500200 respectively. The others I have not studied in detail but show expected variations in their respective werknummern series.

An important thing to remember was that as the ware went on, the manner in which camouflage paints were applied changed significantly. Aircraft began to have certain parts (wing undersides) left in natural metal and upper surfaces were not given a coat of primer and the camouflage colours were applied in a diluted manner to save production time, costs and preserve paint stocks. In many photos, the scheme appears to be monochromatic, yet in others two colours are clearly present. This is no doubt due to the type of film being used, as well as filters on the camera.

Therefore, one needs to study a lot of photographs of aircraft to understand how the camouflage colours were applied, the relationship to werknummern, production facilities, time of construction, etc. Patterns do emerge and can be used to identify aircraft with respect to their identities, and back out the camouflage colours.

Cheers,
David

30. 10. 2011, 1:11
odpovědět

Re:Re: Fassberg five
od: RR pro: David Brown

(Sorry I'm not Robert) nevertheless thanks a lot for this enlightening comment even if slightly disappointing due to the probable absence of report. So we'll have to rely once more on "educated guess-work".
I'm not quite satisfied with some of the profiles in the Classic series too and I dream sometimes of other japo volumes about the 262 camouflages & markings (just like the fw190D). Yet I must admit that "Me262 of KG units" is a remarkable first step.

kind regards

RR

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